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Bumbles
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PostSubject: Re: Pre-op Diet without the sugar   Tue 13 Oct 2015, 10:31 pm

denzel wrote:

What Bumbles was put on pre-op was  a huge amount of carbohydrate and very limited protein - and I bet that you were hungry Bumbles!
http://www.eattobeatdiabetes.com.au/index.php?id=5
Your poor body, swinging blood sugar and insulin levels.

Nope, not hungry at all, there was quite a lot of food to be eaten, I wouldnt have thought 78g of carbs was huge nor 58g of protein limited lol. I was surprised at how satiated I was. 

At the time I switched over to the preop diet, I compared my intake on MFP, the top table shows what my carb/protein/fat levels were for what turned out to be a pretty typical day of:


  • Yoghurt and chopped up fresh strawberries for breakfast. 
  • Muesli Bar for mid morning snack
  • Salad of lettuce, tomato, carrot and cucumber, with beef fillet strips and vinaigrette dressing
  • Banana for tonights snack
  • Lamb steak and salad for tea with balsamic dressing


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PostSubject: Re: Pre-op Diet without the sugar   Tue 13 Oct 2015, 12:22 pm

FTF I did Opti for 4 weeks but I do have to say at the very end I missed one or two because I couldn't face it anymore. I also added diet jelly to the list of what I was eating to help fill me. I only cheated once when I had some chicken as protein. I did try the soups thanks to a nice person on this forum who sent 2 to me to try, but they were awful.

I did prefer optislim to optifast, but I added more water to both and yes the colder the better. One thing I do think the shakes and then the limited food I was eating after the op may have contributed to the diverticulitis I suffered, which put me in hospital 2 weeks after the sleeve, so please make sure you are getting enough fibre and water, especially for anyone a bit older.
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PostSubject: Re: Pre-op Diet without the sugar   Tue 13 Oct 2015, 12:09 pm

Totally agree, denzel, particularly for someone like me who has such a massive problem with sugar. To keep the peace, however, I think I'll start off by doing what I was told to do, and if I can't handle it after a few days, I'll call my surgeon's rooms and ask if I can go low carb, which will equally put me in ketosis, which is the whole aim of the rotten VLCD shakes, but a far better means to that end! I figure it's only 10 days, and post op I can put my own LCHF plan into action for the rest of my life....which is hopefully far, far longer than 10 days !!!
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PostSubject: Re: Pre-op Diet without the sugar   Tue 13 Oct 2015, 12:08 pm

FTF - I was hoping there was an alternative to the opti-phase too - I've done shakes before and just feel weak, hungry and then the occasional hypo.  Agree Denzel - I think I would feel so much more stable on a real food low carb diet.  When I have had success in the past with weight loss and felt good is when I have cut back on the carbs - i.e. sweet poison quit plan.  None of the shakes would be allowed on that plan :-(

I do like the convience of the shakes though - not having to worrry about portions or food lists.  I guess when they are making a shake, they can't have complex carbohydrates so they have to use simple sugars.  I didn't realise how much was the lactose sugar from the milk - so perhaps not as bad as I first thought. 

I suggested to the Dietician having one of the low carb protein shakes, or even the Cyborg Ultra Leaan with extra supplements but the Dietician wasn't keen as it would be complex to make it a full meal replacement.

I like the compromise the Dietician has come up with - eat real food first - specifically my protein serve 50g breakfast, 75g lunch, 75g dinner before the shake.  This should lower the risk of a reactive hypo.  We can tweek as I go through the weeks.
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denzel
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PostSubject: Re: Pre-op Diet without the sugar   Tue 13 Oct 2015, 11:45 am

Well, poo, I've just lost what I was writing.
And no offense to anyone, I am just commenting my thoughts!

I cannot see why having a very low carb, higher protein diet (+ a multivitamin to be sure, to be sure!) would not be better than Optislim pre-op, or what Bumbles was put on!
What Bumbles was put on pre-op was  a huge amount of carbohydrate and very limited protein - and I bet that you were hungry Bumbles!
http://www.eattobeatdiabetes.com.au/index.php?id=5
Your poor body, swinging blood sugar and insulin levels.

I don't know if you folk can access this - you need to have Face Book, but I know what I'd rather have for breakfast!  Real food!
https://www.facebook.com/284203118442687/photos/a.284733381722994.1073741828.284203118442687/393742710822060/?type=3 

All the best,
:)
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KatyOverWeighty
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PostSubject: Re: Pre-op Diet without the sugar   Tue 13 Oct 2015, 7:02 am

I must be a freak... I loved the choc Opti shakes... lol and it is actually true that they are better with really cold water.
The chicken soup I found to be foul... (foul fowl.. bok bok bok) and impossible to clean out of the mug... it went like concrete and really dried out my lips. Random!
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PostSubject: Re: Pre-op Diet without the sugar   Tue 13 Oct 2015, 6:56 am

Don't worry, frankie, I'm looking for any excuse to get out of the opti phase - I have absolutely no valid reason, other than a stubborn dislike for shakes (no lactose intolerance nor hypoglycaemia !) I've never been able to do shake meal replacement diets, the thought of them makes me want to dry reach. I am, however, just going to have to suck it up and do as the surgeon has ordered, I think ! When I start my 10 day Opti phase, I'm going to start with the soup for lunch and see if that is ....more palatable, and if so, I'll have the soups for lunch & dinner. I'd better have a look at the sugar content, which I imagine is surely lower than the shakes (but the sodium is probably higher lol )
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PostSubject: Re: Pre-op Diet without the sugar   Tue 13 Oct 2015, 6:39 am

Oh sorry ladies. Didn't mean to come off as offended.  Thank you for all your advice it is much appreciated. I thought I was just clarifying. Apologies if it didn't come across that way.

Have met with dietician this morning. I just need to eat a serve of protein before the shakes and see how I go. I didn't realise how much 'extra food was included in this phase.

Thank you all again. I really value the community.
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KatyOverWeighty
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PostSubject: Re: Pre-op Diet without the sugar   Tue 13 Oct 2015, 6:30 am

Me either.. my other half is an insulin-dependent Type 1 diabetic so we're very sugar conscious in our house. 

Didn't mean to offend! Just meant that for those who don't have a specific problem with sugar, these shakes are obviously designed to be palatable while keeping your body functioning without collapses. Sugar in some forms is necessary, especially once you remove all the other stuff that keeps the limbs moving!

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PostSubject: Re: Pre-op Diet without the sugar   Tue 13 Oct 2015, 5:42 am

Frankie, I know you have an issue with the sugar and my comment wasn't directed at you. I was talking just in general.

I know what hypoglycaemic attacks are like having experienced them on occasion and I know they are not good so can understand why you would want to avoid them. Didn't mean to offend


Last edited by aussiearies on Tue 13 Oct 2015, 12:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Pre-op Diet without the sugar   Tue 13 Oct 2015, 3:00 am

My issue isn't the shakes. It's my reactive hypoglycaemia. Hypoglycaemic attacks aren't nice and I want to avoid them. I get the shakes are VLCD and you loose weight but I figured they weren't the only way.
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PostSubject: Re: Pre-op Diet without the sugar   Tue 13 Oct 2015, 2:57 am

It may seem like a lot of sugar but obviously these shakes work, perhaps albeit for a short period of time, so I am guessing that there is method in the apparent madness. Besides, without sugar in it no one would drink it.
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PostSubject: Re: Pre-op Diet without the sugar   Tue 13 Oct 2015, 2:40 am

Yes it sure is... when its 'refined' I think it's worse but there are lots of types of sugars and we gotta run on something! I guess they have to replace the carbs and fat etc with something. They aren't magicians lol

That just gave me the best mental picture of the future of diet and nutririon... one day there will be a pill that just magically customises itself to our individual digestive systems, gives us what we need in the perfect amounts and absorbs anything we don't need that has been put in. Oh and an intensecardio-spraytanning-toothwhitening-machine that works while we sleep. 

Ah the future. And here I am exercising and dieting like a sucker!
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PostSubject: Re: Pre-op Diet without the sugar   Tue 13 Oct 2015, 2:28 am


Damn....still haven't got a good excuse to not do Optifast then , I'm not lactose intolerant

BUT, it's still a lot of sugar !
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PostSubject: Re: Pre-op Diet without the sugar   Tue 13 Oct 2015, 2:16 am

That amount of sugar does come with a shock factor when you view it like that, but like BOJ says, its milk powder. Unless you have another medical dietary requirement that you need to take into account (and some of us do, granted) I think we all need to remember we have big bodies and they need to run on something. If something has no carbs, no sugar, no lactose, no everythingelsewehavebeenmadetofreakoutabout... it would be air. Or water.

I for one will be doing as I am told! :)
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PostSubject: Re: Pre-op Diet without the sugar   Tue 13 Oct 2015, 1:43 am

I have my first dietician appointment today - I wanted to see what others had done so I had options to discuss with the dietician.

I like the look of your plan Bumbles - but I am only 4 weeks out from surgery so wondering if that is not enough time - wishing I had started looking into this earlier now :-)

I've done VLCD before for a few months - you are right Box of Jewels - you do need to ease into it.  I had quite of few hypo episodes last time and was trying to find a lower sugar VLCD for this time to try and avoid it or avoid the shakes all together.
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PostSubject: Re: Pre-op Diet without the sugar   Tue 13 Oct 2015, 1:10 am

The shakes are milk based (and not all the shakes you listed qualify for pre op, as not all are VLCD).

Milk has about 10gm of sugars/carbs naturally in 200ml.   Mostly lactose, I think.  So the shakes are a few grams more than that.   I don't see that that would be a big deal, unless you are lactose intolerant.  

The VLCD is set up to be low carb and ketosis inducing.    I highly doubt that we got to the point of needing WLS by worrying about a just few grams of "sugars"....perhaps instead of getting all obsessed about it now, it would be better to just do what the surgeon asks?  As far as reactive hypos are concerned - my understanding is that it is far more likely to occour after a high carb meal.  These just aren't considered high carb, and you still should have *some* carbs in your diet.

I'm wondering if a better plan would be to gradually introduce changes to your diet now, so that it's not a huge shock going from your normal, to opti?   Don't forget - you can pretty much each as many (low carb) veges as you want, and that's going to help smooth things out too.    Switching to the full on optifast diet can be brutal for anyone for at least the first few days - I definitely think easing into it helped me heaps.  

I'd suggest emailing or talking to the surgeon or dietician about your concerns....see what they say.
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PostSubject: Re: Pre-op Diet without the sugar   Mon 12 Oct 2015, 10:23 pm

Hiya Frankie, I am lactose intolerant so couldnt use the shakes. I was on a very restrictive normal food diet for 10 weeks prior to the surgery. It wasnt as easy as mixing up a drink, but from what I hear of opti, it sure was more palatable. Its in my diary, let me go see if I can rustle it up...

Here we go (keep in mind the dairy brands/options are lactose free for me) I had to stick with the brands listed.

1. BREAKFAST: Try to have at 7:30-8am - Choose 1

  • A small tub of diet yoghurt (Yoplait Forme, Nestle Solais, Tamar Valley No Added Sugar, ALDI Diet Deli Yoghurt) with 1/2 cup of berries.
  • 1 slice of toast (rye/sourdough or soy and linseed) with Extra Light Philly
  • 1/2 cup of Be Natural 5 Wholegrain Flakes with skim lactose free milk (Zymil Skim; pink bottle)


2. Small snack: 10:30-11:30am - Choose 1

  • 1 Banana
  • 2 ryvita crackers with 1 slice Kraft Livefree Tasty Cheese
  • Be Natural Trail Bar or Uncle Tobys CRUNCHY


3. LUNCH: 1pm - Choose 1

  • Homemade veggie soup: 2-3 cups without bread
  • 2-3 cups of salad with 100g chicken or tuna or 1 boiled egg. Use Praise Balsamic Fat Free Dressing
  • 1 Vitastic Sorj wrap with salad and chicken or tuna.
  • Meal Replacement Soup or Muesli Bar.


4. AFTERNOON SNACK: 4-5pm - Choose 1

  • 1/2 cup of frozen berries with 200ml skim lactose free milk (Zymil Skim; pink bottle) and Stevia sweetener made into a smoothie
  • Small snack options (only 1 muesli bar per day)


5. DINNER: - Choose 1

  • 2 cups of salad or cooked veggies (steamed). Serve with 100g (raw meat weight) (chicken/fish/beef/lamb)
  • Meal Replacement Soup or Muesli Bar


AVOID:
Potato, pasta, rice, noodles, corn.
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PostSubject: Re: Pre-op Diet without the sugar   Mon 12 Oct 2015, 9:10 pm

Wow, that's a ridiculous amount of sugar, and counterproductive to what we're trying to achieve, I would have thought. I think I might speak to the nurse at the clinic I'm going through and ask if I can do 10 days of low carb ( & small servings if that's what they want ) instead - surely that will produce a better outcome than sugar loaded shakes ??!!
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PostSubject: Pre-op Diet without the sugar   Mon 12 Oct 2015, 1:23 pm

I've been looking into the pre-op diet options but I am really disappointed with the high sugar content of the main brands.  I have reactive hypoglycemia - so I get a bit hypo if I drink anything with these sorts of sugar content - let alone 3 per day. Optifast 53.4g per day or 9 times the recommended intake of sugar.

Has anyone done the pre-op phase without one of the VLCD diet shakes?

Optifast - 17.8g sugar per serve
Optifast Soup - 2-10g per serve
Optislim - 14.2g per serve
Optislim Platinum - 2.8g per serve - 12.8 with 200ml milk
Optislim Soups 5-7g per serve
Proslim - 3g per serve - 13.4 with 200ml milk per serve
Fastblaster - 15.4g per serve
Tony Furgson - 9.8g per serve
Amcal Be Good to Yourself - 13.3g per serve
Betty Baxter - 23.5g per serve
Celebrity Slim Low Carb - 12.1g per serve
Celebrity Slim - 24.g per serve
Kicstart - 14.4g per serve
The Biggest Loser - 22.5g


Based on choc shake or average of soups
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